CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY

PRESENTER- Foreign Minister of Türkiye, Hakan Fidan, thank you so much for talking to Al Jazeera. As I'm sure you are aware, the US President says “Türkiye has conducted” and what he called “an unfriendly takeover of Syria”, something he says “Türkiye has wanted for thousands of years”. How do you respond to that? Did Türkiye conduct an unfriendly takeover of Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think first of all, let me say this. We wouldn't call it a takeover, because it would be a grave mistake to present what's been happening in Syria. For Syrian people, it is not a takeover. I think if there is any takeover, it's the will of the Syrian people which is taking over now.

PRESENTER- Would it then be not correct to characterize Türkiye as the power which will rule Syria in the final or in the end?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think that would be the last thing that we want to see, because we are drawing huge lessons from what's been happening in our region, because domination culture itself has destroyed our region. Therefore, not Turkish domination, not Iranian domination, not Arab domination, but cooperation should be essential. So therefore, we are not looking at the case right now. Our solidarity with Syrian people shouldn't be characterized or defined today as if something that we are actually ruling Syria. I think that would be wrong.

PRESENTER- Right. It's been reported in the US media quoting “US senior officials concerns from the US that Türkiye might be about to launch a major cross-border offensive to try and crush the ‘SDF’, the YPG”. These are the Kurdish forces in Syria. Is that the case? Is that what Türkiye intends to do?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think, as you know, the PKK extension of Syria, YPG, has been an essential threat to Türkiye. But what YPG is playing as a major role to sustain its presence and dominance over the occupied places. They disguise themselves as a group who is helping the West in fight against ISIS. I think this is a misrepresentation of their true identity. They are there as a terrorist organization. If we qualify every group who has fought against ISIS, so we have to take into account some other states and groups in the region too. Every actor in the region fought against ISIS for different reasons. But so overall as you know, I mean, YPG is an extension of PKK and they are filled their ranks with people from Türkiye, Iran, Iraq and some European countries. They are listed as international terrorist fighters. But unfortunately, our Western friends, they turn a blind eye to this fact that the YPG is an extension of PKK.

PRESENTER- In fact, the US Secretary of Defense, Ash Carter, in 2016 confessed to Congress that there is a link, the way he put it I think, was that the YPG is aligned with the PKK. And of course, the US considers the PKK to be a terrorist group. Do you then call upon the US to stop their backing for the “SDF”, the main component of which is the YPG?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we've been calling upon them for some time…

PRESENTER- What response do you get?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- The response… I think it all started during the time of the President Obama. Their explanation to us then, was this was going to be a temporary arrangement, but…

PRESENTER- That's clearly not the case.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, that's clearly not the case. It turned out to be the very long one. Starting from the last year, we started having some discussions with the American Administration on how to address this issue, because this is clearly threatening Turkish national interests, but we don't want to disturb certain balances in the region. But we have to keep our national interests to be observed and saved. So, we are talking to them.

PRESENTER- So coming back, I mean, for viewers listening to your answer, then, Mr. Foreign Minister, does that mean that perhaps Türkiye is getting ready to launch a major offensive? What the sources are talking about is uniformed Turkish commandos gathering artillery near Kobane. Is there a possibility that there may be a big Turkish offensive?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, let me state this. I mean, there is a new administration in Damascus now. I think, this is primarily their concern now. So, I think if they are going to, if they address this issue properly, so there would be no reason for us to intervene.

PRESENTER- What do they need to do? Do they need to take back control of all of Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Absolutely, absolutely.

PRESENTER- Can there be, from the Turkish perspective, can there be a Kurdish, shall we say autonomous region or a Kurdish entity within Syria? Or does that necessarily equal a threat to Türkiye?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think it wouldn't be proper for me to speak on behalf of the Syrian people. This is up to Syrian people to decide. But what I can say as Türkiye's wish and policy, we would like to see civilian Kurdish people, Arab people and Turkmen people to live in their original places. And they shouldn't be disturbed. They shouldn't be forcibly removed from their home towns and villages, and if anyone who had to emigrate somewhere else should be able to come back again. In short, so the Kurds, especially civilian ones, should be able to live where they are.

PRESENTER-If the transitional government or the authorities that take over long term in Damascus, if they manage to take back control of all the territory that Syrian Kurds currently hold, what would that mean for the future of Turkish troops in Syria? Does that mean Turkish troops leave Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, as you know, I mean, there were two major objectives of Turkish presence in Syria. One is to prevent further mass migration to Türkiye because under opposition control there, still today, I mean, 5 million people were living under opposition control. And then counterterrorism issues were primarily important for us. Right now, when we see that those two major concerns are eliminated, we have no reason to stay in Syria. And we see now right steps is being taken in the right direction.

PRESENTER-So, you think things are going in that direction?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Initially, yes. But you know, it is just very new now. I think it has just been almost two weeks. So, we need to give them some more time to see how it will evolve.

PRESENTER-On that point, how does Türkiye now view the transitional authority which is taking over in Damascus? Do you view it and recognize it as the legitimate authority and government of Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we recognize the current administration, the new one as a legitimate partner for Türkiye and for international interlocutors. So, this is why we have started communicating with them. We reopened our Embassy, and we instructed our Ambassador to be in touch with the local and the central officials.

PRESENTER-And we have heard from senior EU officials like Ursula von der Leyen, talking about how they're instructing as well, direct contacts with the new administration. But the EU Foreign Ministers Meeting on December the 16th decided not to lift sanctions on Syria. Do you think they should have?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, there was a meeting. I think eventually they will do.

PRESENTER-Have you been given that message from the EU?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Today, right from before this program, we had the President of European Commission, Madame von der Leyen. She was visiting Türkiye and there was a good meeting between her and President Erdoğan. So, the message that we received, you know, if right steps are taken by the government, the administration in Damascus, I think they are ready to lift the sanctions because they recognize the very fact that, you know, sanctions and development and return of immigrants cannot be used at the same time because you've got to get rid of the sanctions in order to let the new government to take some steps in the direction of development to address the basic needs of the people and to create an environment where refugees can return.

PRESENTER-And to do that, you would need to recognize the authorities in Damascus as legitimate. Do you think the EU and the US should do that. They should recognize the authorities in Damascus as a legitimate government at this point?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think you know, there are two types of definitions. One is the legal definition. The other one is the practical steps. Now we are talking about practical steps. You know, the communication with the government in Damascus and contacting them, meeting them have already started. You know, we are seeing the officials from UN, EU and some other European countries. They have been contacting with the government in Damascus.

PRESENTER-HTS, the main component of the, shall we say, the coalition that is governing Syria. It remains on Türkiye’s terror list. Is it time to remove them, do you think?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think it is time for the international community starting from UN, you know, to remove their name from the terrorism list.

PRESENTER-So, Türkiye would wait for a move in the international community or in the United Nations first.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, I wouldn't say yes because we will be taking a different step, because what we had done in the past, that was in accordance with the UN Security Council decision. So, I think in the light of the recent developments, we can take another decision.

PRESENTER-You mentioned the Syrian refugees. Will they be sent back home now to Syria from Türkiye?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, we are not going to send them back. We hope them that voluntarily, safely if they wish to go back, judging the new environment. So, they are welcome to go back.

PRESENTER- Do you think the environment is moving in that direction?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well the figures are, you know, telling the current a trend. Now when we look at the current, the figures who are indicating the number of people going back, actually we see a slow increase in number of people who are going back. So, I think as we see more stability and more safety, more people will eventually go back, and this is too early at the moment for many people.

PRESENTER- Do you obviously have, as you mentioned, direct contact with the new authorities in Damascus? What is your reading and understanding of them, of the HTS? When we hear from Western officials, a lot of concern at times about the HTS's past connections with groups like Al Qaeda. Are you convinced, Mr. Foreign Minister, that the HTS has cut those links? It's moved on from that time?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think so. I think so because, you know, before this job, I was director of our intelligence agency for 13 years, and Idlib was just next to us as a border town. So, we've been closely following the terrorist and terrorist-linked activities. I think HTS has taken huge steps in divorcing itself from Al Qaeda and DEASH and other related radical elements.

PRESENTER- What do you think is more likely when you make a judgment call, Mr. Foreign Minister, that peace and stability will prevail and the institutions in Syria will prevail or do you think it's more likely at this point that there will be some degree of infighting between the different factions?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I hope we don't see that because infighting would be the last thing that we would like to see. And that's why, I mean, we are making a constructive advice for all the opposition groups to come together and to have a unified government, because the urgent needs of Syrian people cannot be delayed anymore, because we've got to get back all the refugees back to Syria. Then there are some institutional problems, the bureaucracy and public services unfortunately broken now. So they have to be reinstated. So and the basic services -health, transportation, food, education, communication- should be provided to the people, so the people can feel the normal life actually.

PRESENTER- Excellency, you told NTV channel on December 13th the most vital issue that needed to be done was for the Russians not to enter the equation. You went on to explain that the Iranian Foreign Minister came, “we got together with the Russians and Iranians in Doha, and we talked about certain issues. If the regime had been supported, it could have been very bloody.” Should we understand from that actually you convinced the Russians and Iranians not to continue trying to save the Assad regime?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Certainly we have discussed with them and we have communicated with messages to them because, as I said, I mean, we drew very big lessons from our near past.

PRESENTER- How did you do it? So how did you convince them? What was, I guess what I'm trying to say is, what was offered to them? Did they receive any guarantees? What did they ask for in return not to try and save the Assad regime?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we have open and frank discussion with them. We have open and frank discussion, we put every matters on the table, so try to address them one by one. And, you know, the Russians and the Iranians, they've been working in Syria for a long time, and they know exactly how the Syrian regime is going in the negative direction. So, they are very much familiar with the problems of the old regime, the Assad regime. So, I think at some point they come to the conclusion that our messages are also right.

PRESENTER- Did they receive any guarantees that their presence could continue after the fall of the Assad regime?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I cannot talk on behalf of the Syrian people and the Syrian government, so I am not in a position to give them any guarantee.

PRESENTER- Right. Right, right. Was Türkiye aware of the Syrian opposition's plans to try and make a push first for Aleppo and then, you know, Hama and Homs and Damascus before this major offensive began?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No.

PRESENTER- So was it a case of were you trying to catch up with events?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, you know, we know for a long time that, especially HTS, they had the intention of doing so. But our position was always, because of our two primary concerns, because as a result of greater destabilization in Syria, bigger migration influx and the increasing level of terrorism. So we knew for the last two or three years that the regime was very much weak. Any surprise military offensive from north will result in some sort of success on the side of the opposition forces. But there was no guarantee that whether the Iranians and the Russians would use heavy weapons and start bombing indiscriminately, especially the civilian population thus causing a lot of terror and panic and shock within the opposition controlled places. So therefore, this was our understanding. But right now, when they decided to is I mean, our job was to contain it and to make sure that it goes smoothly. And that's why we thought that the diplomatic steps and efforts were particularly important.

PRESENTER- Has the fall of the Assad regime increased Türkiye’s influence for those who analyze the situation? And they say Türkiye is the key player now in Syria. Do you agree with that analysis?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I will say it certainly has increased Türkiye's responsibility. Because, you know, as a neighborly country, we've got to do our best, especially in extending technical assistance to the newly formed government because the government institutions have bankrupted at the moment. No financial tools available, no banking system. Even the airports are not working. So, the new government has to work diligently to rebuild the country again.

PRESENTER- And doesn't that increase Türkiye’s power though? Because as we're seeing these days a lot of international figures coming to Ankara to speak with Türkiye, perhaps to coordinate because they see Türkiye as the main address now.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we would like to use this influence to mobilize more assistance, more cooperation with Syrian people. And this is the angle that we are looking at the case, because we don't want to see especially the regional countries having the impression that Türkiye is dominating Syria in any way. So, we would like to work together with our brotherly countries and other international actors in Syria, because we are not going to repeat a mistake that has been done by some countries in the region. Because first of all, it would be a disrespectful behavior towards the Syrian people. And second of all, no one country can actually address all the problems of Syria. So we have to work together. So, we have to, as I said, the culture…

PRESENTER- Who are you working with? Is it Türkiye, Iran, Russia and the US who are the main countries which are now having to agree on a way forward?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think at the moment to address the development issues, the political stability issues, we need to work together with, starting from Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE around our neighborhood…

PRESENTER- Is it possible for a new order to arise in Syria that keeps all of these disparate parties happy? I mean, obviously, the interests of Iran, the interests of the United States, Russia, I mean, they have very different, shall we say, perspectives on issues. Is it possible for a new Syria to arise that is not caught in some kind of tension between these parties?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, certainly there will be some sort of tensions because it's almost impossible to please everybody and to meet everyone's demands. But however, so we should look at the principles, you know, as international and regional community. What are the agreed principles that we are expecting from the new government in Damascus? A) We don't want them to see mixing up with terrorist groups, mainly ISIS and PKK. B) We don't want them to pose any threat to neighboring countries. C) We don't want them, you know, treating badly the minorities, Christians, Alawites, Yazidis, Turkmens, the Kurds. And we want them to have an inclusive government and we want them to provide the territorial integrity, political unity and sovereignty. Those are the agreed principles. I think as long as all the parties, interested parties, agree on these principles and communicate these principles and expectations with the government in Damascus…

PRESENTER- But that’s they say the devil is in the details sometimes and I mean, if you take the first principle you mentioned, well, maybe in principle everybody would agree that Syria should not be used to support what they consider to be terror groups. But then you, I mean, the subject we just spoke about with the US backing the “SDF” and the YPG that Türkiye considers to be a terrorist group. The United States officials have admitted it’s tied to the PKK that they consider to be a terrorist group. I mean, do you do you consider in that scenario, for example, that the US is backing a terror group by supporting the YPG?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Yes.

PRESENTER- And?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- We have told this openly many times.

PRESENTER- And if that policy doesn't change, does that put you on a collision course with the United States, especially with the new administration that's coming into power?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, this is exactly what we've been trying to avoid for some years, managing not to have on a collision course with the United States, at the same time addressing the terrorism threat. So therefore, we establish a de-conflicting mechanism with the American forces in Syria. So, while we were conducting our operations, intelligence and military operations against the terrorist targets, at the same time we were de-conflicting with the Americans. So diplomatically, militarily, it was a challenging job, but so far we have brought here, but at the risk of always having a big confrontation, because, as I said, they have their presence, we have our existential threat there. So now we both recognize this problem and we are taking steps accordingly. I know President Trump, when he was President, he instructed a couple times to give up from these policies, but nobody listened to him, unfortunately.

PRESENTER- So I'm just putting all the pieces together of what you're saying, Mr. Foreign Minister. Does that mean that the likelihood of a conflict of interest between Türkiye and the US is still very much there over Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think we are coming to the end. We are coming to the end. We are wrapping up. We are wrapping up.

PRESENTER- Has the US requested from Türkiye not to launch a new major offensive against the Kurds? Has that been requested?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- You know, there is always emphasis on not to disturb ISIS related operations. Because they cannot say to us, don't address your terror threat. This is not something that we are going to listen or they cannot…

PRESENTER- And what is your response to them then?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we are saying, look, we've got to find another way because we will continue our operations and international community, by the way, shouldn't be held hostage or shouldn't be blackmailed by PKK, YPG because of ISIS prisoners. So, this is our message.

PRESENTER- We've seen Israel launch strikes right across Syria. We've seen Israel move and grab more land in the buffer zone beyond the occupied Golan Heights. We've seen Israel announce, the Prime Minister announce, new settlement buildings in the Golan Heights. From your reading of it, does this to you look like a country which is simply trying to protect its security interests or is taking advantage of the situation in Syria to, frankly, launch what many people would call a land grab?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, the initial few steps that has been conducted by Israel in the first days of the events, could have been read as some security measures. But after the declaration of Netanyahu's government, you know, doubling down the population in occupied Golan Heights, I think now this is a new dimension. Now we are seeing a huge provocation on the side the Israeli side, which I think Netanyahu government is not only genocidal, but it's also suicidal. They are not only threatening the future of our region, the Arabs and Muslims, but future of the Jewish and Israeli people, creating a huge, bad legacy for the future.

PRESENTER- Everything that's happened in Syria, where does that leave people in Gaza? Does that leave them more isolated on their own?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I hope not, because as the international community, starting from Türkiye, we will never leave them alone. We will do whatever it takes in our power to help them, to assist them…

PRESENTER- But for example, if we listen to Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, saying on Wednesday Assad's toppling was the result of a plan by the United States and Israel. So, I guess from their perspective, they're saying “This breaks…”, what they call “…the axis of resistance”. How do you see that?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, with all due respect to our Iranian friends, I mean, we've had this discussion maybe thousand times with them because their presence in Syria didn't prevent a big genocide in Gaza.

PRESENTER- Mr. Hakan Fidan, Foreign Minister of Türkiye. Thank you so much for talking to Al Jazeera, Sir.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Thank you.