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PRESENTER- Hakan Fidan, Foreign Minister of the Republic of Türkiye, I thank you so much for joining us here on TRT World. Now, I want to ask you, first of all, we here at the Munich Security Conference, and it really seems that a divide has emerged between the US and Europe. Do you have a sense that this is a temporary rift or a deeper, a deeper shift in transatlantic relations right now?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Thank you very much first of all for having me and the question that you are asking is a very important one, and because for the last couple of days, my time in Munich, I’ve seen a lot of people, and they are asking the same question. And I think, my impression is that Mr. Trump, since he took the office, he's questioning the very propositions of the current international system through the new American lenses. So, I think he is sending shockwaves to the entire world, and, asking what more United States can get from the existing international system, because, in their view, America is getting less than they are giving. So, they are questioning every bit of relations, economy, trade, technology and security. So, I think, on both sides of Atlantic, now there is a big discussion. The Europeans are very much concerned with their new reality and they certainly hope that this is a temporary one and it will fade away. But if it doesn't, what would be the alternative strategies? I think they’ve already started discussing about some important issues, like how to have a new security structure, how to go ahead with a new economic structure. And Europe’s dependent less on America, how they can navigate modern world in the face of current challenges? Those are big questions that they are asking themselves. We hope that it is a temporary one and it is a wake-up call for the entire world. Mr. Trump is really, I think, sending these question marks to the entire world.

PRESENTER- Absolutely. Question marks, shockwaves, as you said. I want to come back to Europe and to discuss Ukraine. But first I want to ask you about the Munich Security Index 2025, which has made an important point about Türkiye. And it shows a significant improvement in the perception of Türkiye as a strategic ally compared to last year. Why do you think that is?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I think in the face of new threats that Europeans are facing, starting from the war in Ukraine, the problems in Middle East, and the American possible disengagement from Europe – those are really existential issues for Europeans and I think when they look at the around, when they try to restructure their strategies and policies, they see that Türkiye is a reliable and strong partner under President Erdoğan’s leadership because for over the two decades, under the leadership of President Erdoğan, Türkiye has overcome its infrastructure problems, superstructure problems and we have strengthened our defense industrial base, trade industrial base, and we've done all of this without receiving hundreds of billions of funds from the European Union. We earn ourselves and we spend ourselves. And yet, while we were doing all these development moves, big moves, we were also facing a lot of security challenges around our region. So, and starting from terrorism and instability in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere, and those big challenges again and again proved that Türkiye is really showing a good leadership, not only addressing those problems, fighting against those problems, but also being a trusted ally and partner. So, I think it's important to you see that our European friends are rediscovering Türkiye's merits.

PRESENTER- It's a good word, rediscovering, yes. Your Excellency, Ukraine, of course, has dominated the Munich Security Conference as a topic. There's so much concern of course, and it comes, of course, with the backdrop of momentum growing for settlements to be negotiated. President Erdoğan has offered Türkiye’s helping facilitating, and, of course, there is a great history of Türkiye mediating between Ukraine and Russia. We have the success of the grain deal, of course. What are the prospects for peace right now between Ukraine and Russia, do you think?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I think both sides emphasize the need for ceasefire. For someone like me who has been dealing with this issue right from the beginning, this is a big, very big news because I know some very interested actors. They never wanted to hear the word ceasefire. Mr. Trump would like to have an immediate ceasefire. But at the same time, they want to work through a peace plan. Can it be achieved? I think it is very difficult, it has big challenges, but it is worth to try certainly, because the amount of destruction and death is far more than we can bear. So, I think now it is time to really think hard on a ceasefire just to prevent further destruction and loss of lives. This is a moral issue. This is not anymore a subject for strategy and war. It has become an existential, moral issue, allowing the loss of this much lives. So, it's a big problem. I think, Türkiye is willing to and ready to play any role to contribute to peace in Ukraine and to contribute to the reconstruction of Ukraine. But first of all, we need to have a ceasefire, that we need to have a workable and a long-term peace plan. Now, the American administration and Europeans and us, all of us, we are working on different aspects of this possible ceasefire and peace plan. How can it be achieved? How can it be preserved, and how can we prevent another war reemerging? So those are very legitimate questions that some of our European friends and we are also asking. But, combining the short-term immediate need for ceasefire with the long-term strategic concerns is a very essential task now. This is exactly what we are working on at the moment.

PRESENTER- And specifically Türkiye, because you've been speaking to both Ukraine and Russia. What will you be doing?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, President Erdoğan, as you know, he's been very much concerned about the destruction of war right from the beginning. He understands the evil nature of the world quite well. So, whatever there is around us, number one reflex that we are actually showing is to really cool down and stop it. But here that's why he instructed us and different government agencies to do our best to facilitate any ceasefire talks or if not a tactical prisoner exchange or as we saw in the example of grain deal. Those are really, very important mediation activities in times of war. If we cannot stop the war, but at least we can ease some of the bad sides of the war, like, as I said, I'm in for exchange of the prisoners and facilitating the grain deal. Now we are looking at further opportunities to how more we can really engage with the ceasefire talks and we are offering to both sides that we can host the venue, we can do whatever in our capacity. But there are some peculiarities, this is the nature of the business. So, both sides now and the Americans; they are engaging in initial talks, the American side. My impression is that they are in the process of forming a plan now. I met with Secretary Rubio and General Kellogg. And then I had long meetings with my Ukrainian friends Andriy Yermak and Rustem Umerov. The impression that I got is that both sides now, they are forming their plan and we'll see how it goes.

PRESENTER- Because it's interesting, it made headlines, the fact that Europe would be consulted but would not be involved in these negotiations, according to a US special envoy, Keith Kellogg, that you mentioned. Is this a bigger opportunity then for Türkiye to be involved if Europe is just being consulted but not involved or not at the table?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- We really understand the concerns of our European friends. I think they have a point, to be honest. They have a point. They have to be consulted and they have to be part of the ongoing efforts, just like Türkiye. Because unfortunately, sometimes we don't see the same mature behavior from the Europeans. We are recognizing their right to be around the table, but most of the time they neglect to say that Türkiye should be also around the table because this is happening in our immediate neighbourhood. Apart from that, we have close ties on both sides and I think Türkiye can offer more than many actors. So that's why we have to do more.

PRESENTER- Absolutely. And just one point on concessions Ukraine's territorial integrity. What is Türkiye's stance on position on potential concessions?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- In an ideal world, we would like to see the territorial integrity of Ukraine is preserved in an ideal world. But this is the time of war. And unfortunately, as a result of this war, we have to do some choices, some bitter choices. So, this is what they are trying to decide now. What they can take, what they can leave out, what they can delay. I think those are some of the priorities, areas that they are now focusing very much. The Americans, the Europeans, us and Russians, Ukrainians, everybody is now asking the same question. Okay. If we want to have a ceasefire, so what should be our priority? Both sides have different objectives and concerns. So, will the American mediation be enough to really get them meet in the midway or will favor one more and leave the other? Those are big questions and I think we'll see in due course.

PRESENTER- Foreign Minister, I want to speak about Syria now. And there are reports of a potential US withdrawal of troops from Syria. And as you mentioned, you met with your counterpart, Marco Rubio, here at the Munich Security Conference. Did you discuss this? Was there consensus on this point?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- We have discussed about this. And, you know, it's not good to reveal the details of our discussions because this is a part of the diplomacy. I think now our American friends are now formulating their policy, and we need, I think, a little bit more time to continue to have some detailed discussions.

PRESENTER- And with regards to Syria's territorial integrity, both Türkiye and Syria have pledged to respect this. And of course, Syria needs to have a unified armed force and government. But what is the plan to address the PKK/YPG’s control of a third of all of Syria? And as you mentioned yesterday in your panel here at the Munich Security Conference also key energy sites as well, which is I'm not sure if this is known to our international audience.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- You're right. I think not many people know the very fact that PKK is occupying one-third of the entire Syrian land and sitting on some very important energy resources which is badly needed by the rest of the Syrian population. I think the new administration in Damascus now, as they are dealing with big challenging, ending the PKK occupation of Syria is also their priority. So, this is what's happening at the moment. As Türkiye, we are closely following and monitoring the situation because PKK is an existential threat for Türkiye and not only for Türkiye but also for Kurds in Syria and Iraq and Iran. So, for the better advantages of both Syria and Türkiye and Iraq and Kurds, we need to get rid of PKK.

PRESENTER- How big a threat is the PKK/YPG for the future of Syria?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, first of all, in any state, country, we cannot have an armed groups who is not reporting to the central government. We cannot have a terrorist organization who has been based in some country and targeting another country. I mean, in our region, we've had enough. Now it is time to put an end to terror activities of DEASH and PKK. So, PKK is really a multi-purpose terror organization. They are not only targeting Türkiye, but they are targeting Iran, they are targeting Iraq, they are targeting Syria. So, I think it is time collectively to get rid of this virus.

PRESENTER- I speak about DEASH. You were recently in Baghdad and you spoke to your counterpart there about collaborating in the fight against DEASH. Just how serious is the threat of DEASH today?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Based on current intelligence assessment, the current DEASH problem is not the problem. The problem is the possibility of a resurgence of DEASH again. So, to make sure that it is not reemerging, regional countries should demonstrate a certain degree of ownership of the problem to address the terror issue by forming a platform. So, as Türkiye, we have proposed to create a platform, because after the situation in Syria, now Syria can be a responsible part and should be a responsible part of the regional effort to combat terrorism. So, Iraq, Türkiye, Syria, Jordan – those four countries, three of us, we have a border with Syria now, and as you know the risk of DEASH now very much is in both some areas in Syria and some areas in Iraq, especially remote areas. So, we need to get our capabilities to address this issue. We need to have intelligence fusion. We need to have a structured mechanism. I think this is a good start not only to address ISIS issue but also to work on border security.

PRESENTER- How are you doing this with your neighbors and how important is that work with your neighbors for the rest of the world?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- It is very important for the rest of the world because when you have ISIS problems, when they start basing themselves without any interruption in any given place in the region, they can start, they can become a problem for the rest of the world because they adopt an international terror language and international terror objectives. So, we don't want to see that. And it creates a big problem for the rest of the world. Thus, they feel the need to intervene to the region. When they intervene to the region to address the terror issue, along with that, they cause some other problems. In order to address both terror issue and to prevent some unwanted intervention, unnecessary intervention in the region, I think the regional government countries should demonstrate a good degree of ownership.

PRESENTER- I want to move to Gaza now. It's endured, of course, as you've seen it, incredible destruction, loss of life. And now we have President Trump wanting to relocate Palestinians, which of course, Türkiye strongly opposes. How do you view these statements that are coming from the new US administration?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I think, as you said, we are strongly opposing those suggestions, those proposals. But many people agree that whatever Mr. President Trump is saying, I think this is to create a discussion about the future of Palestine, particularly about the future of Gaza. So, that's why some regional countries now are working on a plan. I am in regular consultation with my Arab colleagues, they are working on a plan. So, I hope that they will be able to really have a sensible understanding with the Trump administration.

PRESENTER- What do you think at this critical juncture with regards to the ceasefire and of course the future of Gaza? What do you think is next and what would be Türkiye's involvement here?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- For the last 15 months, to be honest, starting from our Egyptian and Qatari colleagues, we, as Türkiye, also tried to do our best really to contribute to have a ceasefire. Finally, after destruction and loss of lives, the Israeli genocide unfortunately went on. Now, finally we have a ceasefire. Finally, we have a glimpse of hope for the future. But all the indicators, unfortunately, suggest that Mr. Netanyahu has no intention of to continue with the ceasefire. So as soon as he gets all the hostages, his intention is, unfortunately, to restart the war again, because there is no pressure or no other power to stop him other than the Americans. And it should be up to Mr. Trump and his administration to prevent another genocide, another crimes against humanity. Otherwise, the very basic of his proposals when he was coming to the power – to stop the wars and to stop the loss of lives – will be in vain.

PRESENTER- Absolutely. That's what he said. No more, no more foreign wars. And right now, we're still in phase one of this three-part ceasefire deal. Do you see it progressing to phase two and phase three?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Next two weeks is crucial to reach the next phase two. I hope that the negotiators from both sides can really work out the details, which is necessary to go on with the phase two. My view is as long as if we have the political will from the Israeli side, I think it is possible to work out the phase two and it is doable, but there should be a political will from the Israeli side.

PRESENTER- See what happens in these next few weeks. I want to move finally now to a completely different subject. We know that you're interested in emerging technologies. What worries you the most when it comes to artificial intelligence?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- First of all, unfortunately this technology, like in the case of any other technological revolution, should be in the service of the entire humanity. So, as an international community, we need to, we should be able to come together at this time. We should be able to create an environment where all the nations can equally benefit from the AI revolution. But now we are seeing a big trend in commercializing the entire AI industry, and now it has become also a big subject between superpowers – how to maintain dominance the other actors in military and technology spheres. Those are the size of AI that I am very much worried about. There are also some ethical questions, there are also some philosophical questions about AI. For instance, when we reach artificial general intelligence, which is the next step for now, what we have then human-level intelligence multiplied by millions or trillions. It's an unimaginable world for all of us now. What will change in human life in terms of our moral values, in terms of our social interactions and everything else? Now, those are under discussions. And yet there is another theoretical question. So, everybody I mean, AGI is not a theoretical question, it is just a matter of time. But artificial superintelligence going beyond AGI is something that now everybody is worried from now. Those are very fundamental questions, starting from the basic tenets of the AI to feature risks and benefits of AI. I think we have to come together as international community this time. This is not another revolution, like you are inventing a missile or atomic bomb or semiconductor transistor chips; this is something else very different. This has the potential to change the life as we know and it has already started changing.

PRESENTER- So, do you see this? You said the international community should come together on AI. But do you see that really happening or is this going to be like a strategic rivalry among powers?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Strategic rivalry is now ruling the game, unfortunately. But within the European Union, within some UN organizations, within some regional organizations, I see some movements. People and experts are coming together, trying to regulate it. But how successful it can be, we'll see, because we don't know full benefit of AI. We cannot know unless we see it. Now, it is in the making, it's an ongoing process. When we see the full potential of AI, we can really make a better assessment.

PRESENTER- And Türkiye. What is Türkiye doing? How is it positioning itself in this new AI world and momentum?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- As for Türkiye, as government, our awareness is very high. We are very much conscious about the merits of AI. So, President Erdoğan has instructed the relevant Ministries to work hard on this. We are open to cooperation and joint venture with other countries and other foreign companies, as well as our domestic companies, starting from our defense industry base to other digital companies, to work on. Our Minister of Technology and Industry, they are working on a plan. I am in a regular discussion with them because this is a very competitive area and there is also a need for international regulation, so I am trying to follow it very closely. Of course, it is very difficult to catch where the Chinese and Americans are. But this is not only our problem, but some other countries starting from Europe, they are facing the same problem. So maybe an alternative would be we can be part of a joint regional or international pact to work on AI.

PRESENTER- Foreign Minister, we've touched on many subjects. Do you have any final message for our international audience on TRT World?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Türkiye is trying to do its best to contribute to peace and prosperity and development, starting from our region and internationally. And President Erdoğan is really showing a great leadership to promote the agenda of peace and security for the entire world. And we've been advocating the very fact that the international system is broken and it needs to be restored. In the absence of an rules-based international system, we see what's happening in Gaza, we see what's happening in Africa, we see what's happening in Ukraine. So, I think the humanity should do more.

PRESENTER- Absolutely. Foreign Minister, thank you so much, Your Excellency, for your time here on TRT World. It's been a pleasure.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Thank you.