CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY

PRESENTER- Minister, thank you so much for your time. I wanted to start here. One would look, one might look at the confluence of issues, geopolitical issues today and the G20 members and wonder where there can be consensus and where the dialogue even starts. What is your hope and your expectation from these two days of meetings here?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I think G20 is the most relevant platform for identifying geopolitical and geoeconomic issues and bridging them, at least at the discussion level. So, in today's world, I think the importance of G20 is increasingly becoming more relevant to our existing issues, starting from multilateralism versus unilateralism, and reform of international system and how to reach a geoeconomic issues with geostrategic and geopolitical issues. Those are very essential questions that we've been asking in G20 meetings for the last decade. So, I think we are having some positive results in terms of synchronizing our views, at least identifying the major issues and then discussing about this. But when it comes to implementing those answers and translating them into real, tangible and practical actions, this is where we have problems.

PRESENTER- What would you say is the biggest pain point right now?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Right now, I think the multilateralism is in erosion. I think this is the focal point. This is the most important issue that we are facing now because if we can institutionalize properly multilateralism, so we can easily, it would be easy for us to address the problems of geopolitics, war and peace and economic problems, development issues and the and financial issues, technological issues.

PRESENTER- But the erosion is making it difficult to address those. Is that what you're saying?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Absolutely. Because in the absence of proper multilateral institutions, the self-help is on the menu for every nation state. So, it encourages a very fierce competition between the nation states, and most of the time, the ones who stay behind and their people suffer most.

PRESENTER- In your bilaterals that you have had, is there unity on moving forward with multilateralism, or are you finding that some of the member states in the G20 are some of those that are potentially pulling back from that?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- On some issues, yes; on some issues, no, because I think in some economic issues, you know, if we need some collective action, we see that there are some positive results over the last decade or so. But in reforming the entire system just to address the root cause of this problem, I think we still have a long way to go.

PRESENTER- How does the absence of your US counterpart here affect these talks?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, a there was a representative from the United States and we heard their talking points and their vision. So, in terms of hearing them, there was no absence. But, of course, if our counterpart was here, we would have had some extra meetings. Actually, I met him last week in Munich.

PRESENTER- Right and so then I guess what would have been different if you were to continue on your discussions, then the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, about some of the issues that we've heard from the US this week, namely in regards to Russia and Ukraine. Could there have been progress made this week?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I discussed with my Russian counterpart and I heard their views and what happened in Riyadh, and we hosted last week in Türkiye, President Zelenskyy and also heard their perspective. I think as we understand a plan is in the making now by the relevant parties, and we are trying to make our own contribution to this discussion as Türkiye, as we have done just a couple of years back. Still we are waiting and to see what kind of plan will emerge after all these discussions.

PRESENTER- What is your understanding of the plan as it stands right now?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, as you know, Mr. Trump has stated numerous times that he would like to see an immediate ceasefire. As a political leader, he just states his wish. I think he has a big point because the amount of destruction and death is unbearable, and what's happening in Ukraine has become a moral issue for the entire world. It started as a geostrategic issue, but now it's becoming a big moral issue. In modern times, the humanity is allowing the loss of lives and destruction at that scale. So, Mr. Trump has a point in wishing that the war has to stop, but how to actually make it happen, how to make it stop? This is another question that people are now working on that.

PRESENTER- What is Türkiye's, though, response to President Trump's recent reversal of the US's stance, at least in this conflict?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, it's a very stark development and it left a lot of our European partners in a little bit worried situation because they've been working on a plan primarily with the Biden administration right from the beginning of the Ukrainian war. And now Mr. Trump and his administration is suggesting the other way around. So, I think there needs to be a lot of readjustment done, has to be a lot of discussions. So, the European friends, they have started discussing among themselves and there are discussions within NATO. I think the both sides, when they have formulated their own views, they will start to discuss with each other. As I understand, some European leaders will go to DC and have a meeting with President Trump like President Macron, Prime Minister Starmer. They will go and discuss these issues.

PRESENTER- Do you worry, though, that it could lead to a weakened Europe potentially?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Now, that's a very good question. I think so, yeah. I am worried.

PRESENTER- Why, can you expand on that? Why are you concerned?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Because Europe historically has developed a big dependency on the United States. But it was so big, so all-encompassing to a degree where a lot of people has forgotten that this dependency is just there. So, it was taken for granted and many Europeans have started to think that whatever they are having or living is their own making. Actually, what lies behind was for a long time, a big dependency. I think this crisis might also offer a big opportunity for our European friends, too.

PRESENTER- How so?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Diminishing the dependency on the United States, on very strategic areas, I think would make them, all of us, much more resilient in the face of economic and geopolitical crisis.

PRESENTER- What about the increased engagement by the US administration with Russia? I know you met with your Russian counterpart. Does that change the calculus and the negotiations at this point?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- It is going to certainly change a lot of things, and on the European sphere, on American sphere, on Asian and Russian sphere, for everybody. I think what Mr. Trump and his administration is trying to do, the thing that I am trying to understand, if they are divorcing Ukrainian war issue with other American-Russia relations, so that is something else. So, that means there might be two tracks: on one track they can work on how to address stopping the Russian-Ukrainian war; on the other track how to overcome the existing challenges and problems between Russia and the United States. But bulk of the problem has been introduced right after the start of the war. So, I think those two tracks are heavily interlinked to each other. So eventually, if Mr. Trump would like to advance the relations or address the current problems with Russia, they need to also find a way of solving the Ukrainian problem in a very proper way.

PRESENTER- Is that what your Russian counterpart shared with you, or is this…

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, this is my own reading as a result of my discussions.

PRESENTER- So, then what more did Sergei Lavrov then share with you? I understand there's going to be more meetings happening between your two countries. What is next on the table between you, especially as it pertains to the conflict.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Between Türkiye and Russia?

PRESENTER- Yeah.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we've had a lot of subjects to discuss, starting from Syria and energy, Caucasus, the war in Ukraine. We are importing a bulk of our energy from Russia, and the security of ships in the Black Sea, the maritime security of the ships are very much important, security of pipelines, which is coming to Türkiye from Russia. Those are major subjects that we are discussing all the time.

PRESENTER- And last on the conflict, do you expect there to be a resolution soon, or do you think the events over the past few days potentially are a setback to the solution?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I think still the discussion is going on.

PRESENTER- What is that mean that for?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I cannot predict a precise time frame. But I think in couple of months time, all we can expect some sort of development, because you know, given the fact that Mr. Trump is very much eager to really stop the war. So, he has already started talking to the Russian side one-on-one. So, I think this means a lot.

PRESENTER- Do you have thoughts on President Trump changing his mind again about the US administration’s stance on Ukraine joining NATO?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- I am not sure if the previous administration was also in favor of Ukraine joining NATO. So, I think there is no new policy on this.

PRESENTER- Well, he's saying Ukraine should not be a part of NATO whatsoever. I mean, he's making that pretty explicit. I mean, how does Türkiye then feel about it?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, this is something that we've been discussing with our European partners and the Ukrainian friends. Look, we have to understand one very fact. Ukrainians are asking for NATO membership, just not because for the sake of being a NATO member. It's just to see a security guarantee for their own country. So, if they engage, let's say a ceasefire agreement or a peace agreement, some sort of security guarantee, this is what they think is necessary to engage such a thing. Because if the war re-emerges, so what will be the security guarantee for them? This is what they are seeking. I think now the security guarantee for not seeing the war re-emerging is one of the primary questions that we are discussing in the negotiations. So, the Ukrainians, one of the ways that they want to see is NATO membership, if not creating a big international coalition to deploy alongside the contact lines or the Russians might have different ideas for guarantee and security guarantees. Those are the issues that we are discussing with alternative scenarios.

PRESENTER- Does Türkiye believe, though, that Ukraine should have NATO membership?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, we wouldn't mind if they want to be a NATO member, but we have to be very much realistic, because we openly stated that we are in favor of Ukraine to be a NATO member. This was the statement from our President, so this is our official position.

PRESENTER- Let's continue on membership and talk about the BRICS membership. We are South Africa, which is a part of the BRICS, of course. How do you feel about the BRICS bloc? We've heard again President Trump talk about his concern with the BRICS moving away from the Dollar. Is Türkiye looking potentially to be a part of that bloc in the near term? Would that be beneficial to some of the interests that your country is seeking?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- As you know, we've been seeking to become a member of European Union for a long time. This is just to fulfill our economic policy orientation, because in modern world, no one country can alone overcome the economic and political issues of the modern world. So, we need to be part of some pacts, platforms and unions and alliances. So, the Economic Union of the European Union was a good target for us and still an official political objective for us. But unfortunately, the Europeans have not thought in the same way because they managed to become a supranational civilization, but they failed to become a supracivilizational one and they never asked themselves. Why I'm telling you this because they refuse to have a big Muslim country into their ranks. So, given this fact, against the backdrop of this fact, we've started looking at the other economic platforms, other economic cooperation platforms like BRICS to see what kind of merits that they have, what are the advantages, what kind of institutional mechanism they have or they don't have. So, we are interested in, but we have not been offered a membership yet.

PRESENTER- Is that part of your trip negotiations about potential BRICS membership? Are those discussions that you're having here?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Not here. You know, those discussions that we are always having. But as I said, officially we have not received any membership invitation yet.

PRESENTER- But if you did receive an invitation, would you be keen on joining the group?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, our President, President Erdoğan, is very much keen to, as I said, to increase Türkiye's economic options. So, the EU was our first choice. But if we cannot be part of the EU, so the other alternatives are always on the table.

PRESENTER- We're going to take that as a yes. Minister, I also want to talk about Türkiye's role, an increasing role in Africa. We have seen more and more presence of Türkiye’s officials. Where do you see this relationship really going over the past or over the next few years?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, as you know, we've been engaging with African countries very intensely, and we have embassies in 44 countries and our trade numbers are increasing. Our economic, social, cultural, political and defense cooperation with many African countries are on a good trajectory. I think we are benefiting from them a lot and they are benefiting from us a lot. We think that as Türkiye, we are bringing a different perspective into relations with Africa, combining our historical experience and cultural features with our current tools and methods. I think we are presenting a unique way of relations with African countries. So especially President Erdoğan is attaching great importance to work together with African countries. We are working on some countries on how to counter terrorism because we have developed huge expertise on countering terrorism in our neighbourhood. So, we think that it will be useful for our some African friends to benefit from this experience. This is one of the areas that we are having cooperation. For instance, in Somalia, fighting against radical organizations and assisting the federal government is a good example for us. In some countries, the economy; in some countries, technical cooperation and in many countries, we have educational programs, and I think the trade is on a good trajectory.

PRESENTER- So how do you see it evolving then when you meet with African Union and South Africa? I mean, what are the discussions about how this relationship between various nations can evolve with Türkiye?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, African Union as a whole is a very important platform for Türkiye and the leadership of the African Union is always interested in advancing relations with Türkiye, because they also would like to increase the number of their options vis-a-vis, you know, interested countries. So, I think Türkiye, as I said, is offering an opportunity for some African countries and the African Union to have some relations on different areas. In the future, for the next couple of days, we are going to do what we've been doing actually for the last two decades.

PRESENTER- There's no changes to…

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, no, no.

PRESENTER- Even when you talk about this, this threat of multilateralism, changes in administrations globally, you don't feel that there is a shifting of the relationships between Türkiye and some of the countries on the continent?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- No, no.

PRESENTER- So then just finally, Minister, I wonder you brought up Somalia. What is the update on how progress on those discussions and resolving the conflicts there are going?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, in Somalia, the good thing is now there is no hot conflict inside between different substate regions. But there is a tension. I think after the elections in Somaliland, now the things are calm. This is good. And our cooperation with the federal government to assist them to fight against radical organizations – Al-Shabab is, I think, on the right track, and they are advancing their positions. I hope that they can also finalize their fight by engaging also other methods other than fight. And the agreement that they've had with Ethiopian government – I think it's a good success and it's a good example that African countries, they are showing a good degree of ownership of their own problems, so they can really address their problems by having a healthy discussion. So, the Ankara Declaration between Ethiopia and the Somalia was a good one.

PRESENTER- And finally, Minister, I know I said finally before, we're seeing Türkiye, in addition to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and a few other countries stepping in to fill a bit of the mediator role with a lot of the global crises that we're seeing right now. When we think about Syria, that's another place where Türkiye has really asserted its role on the global stage. Do you believe that this will continue for the country? Do you see your role as an international mediator to a certain extent similar to Saudi and Qatar? And I wonder what the difference is you think that your country brings?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, one of our foreign policy objectives for the last two decades is how to stop the wars and conflicts in and around our region, because we have suffered a lot as a result of wars and conflicts and occupations, civil wars and everything else in our region. What happened in Iraq, Syria and beyond and North Africa, Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza, Palestine; these are really ruining our region. So, this shouldn't be the fate of the Middle East and our immediate neighbourhood. So, we consciously develop a mediation program to address those issues on varying degrees – at some places in a degree and some places we are becoming a part of collective teamwork with other countries. But in the end, we believe that mediation is essential. The regional ownership of the problems is essential because the regional countries should come together to address their own problems. If we wait for hegemony and outside powers to come to the region and to sort out the problems, most of the time the bitter experience suggests that when they leave, they leave things worse.

PRESENTER- Do you see it then being in the best interest of your economy as well?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Of course.

PRESENTER- Things like sanctions as well have an impact.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Well, I think it's in our best interest not to see any sanctions, not to see any conflicts. For instance, let's take a look at Iraq. For the last couple of years after the civil war, occupation and everything else, I think the country is really thriving; and under the leadership of Prime Minister Sudani, for the first time they have a chance to address their infrastructure problems. The country itself has rich resources, but because of political instability, they've never found a chance to really utilize this richness. So finally, this is happening, and as Türkiye, we are strongly supporting these development moves.

PRESENTER- And the release of sanctions, you're saying, across the board?

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Yes.

PRESENTER- Okay. Minister, thank you so much for your time.

FOREIGN MINISTER HAKAN FİDAN- Thank you.

PRESENTER- Thank you.